Login/Sign up

World Association of International Studies

Post Mussolini and Italy's Jewish Population
Created by John Eipper on 03/23/23 4:21 AM

Previous posts in this discussion:


Mussolini and Italy's Jewish Population (Eugenio Battaglia, Italy, 03/23/23 4:21 am)

I love very much the posts of Istvan Simon when he attacks me, as he did on March 19th.

These exchanges remind me of my discussions long ago with the Italian "Reds," but the present discussions are much better as they are in a safe environment with no possibility of personal harm. This makes quite a difference.

I can answer him with my previous post "How Many did Mussolini kill" of 10/26/17, at present in fourth place in the WAIS most-accessed posts, to which I would like to add two points.


1) No mass deportation to extermination camps in Germany was ever the responsibility of Mussolini. In reality, we had the deportation of a few thousand workers who sabotaged Italian industries during the Civil War to German labor camps.

With reference to Italy's Jewish Community of 58,412 people according to the census of 1938, the Germans deported almost 8000 and only 10% came back. This was not a Mussolini policy.  I would rather call it a German violation of RSI sovereignty. In fact, most of the deportations happened when the RSI was not in full control; see the famous deportation of 1024 Jews from Rome on 16 October 1943, and only 16 of them came back.

Furthermore, about 2000 Italian Jews participated in the resistance and many fell or were deported for it.

2) Istvan should be grateful to Mussolini, because by his order all Jewish Communities were protected in the areas occupied by Italian Forces in Greece, Yugoslavia, France, etc. The Supreme Command from Rome on 21 March 1943 confirmed to all the regional Commands:

"As per Il Duce, request n° 1 is to save all Jews of any nationalities living in Italian occupied areas." So many Jews living in other areas moved to the Italian-occupied zone, irritating and rising virulent protests from German, Vichy, and Ustasha authorities. This is documented in the books of Jewish historians Leon Poliakov, Renee Poznanski, Nicholas Farrell, and others.

Istvan wrote, "Mussolini allied with Nazi Germany and Hitler, surely one of the worst mass murderers in history." Remember that Roosevelt allied with the USSR and Stalin, surely one of the worst mass murderers in history.

As Istvan loves the Russian people and despises Putin, I, as well said by our esteemed editor, love the American people and I have debts of gratitude to them.  But at the same time, I also see the negative aspects of the Empire's policies for Italy. Furthermore, Istvan does not care for the people of Novorossija, upon whom Ukraine has been waging war since 2014, while I am very concerned about them and about other ethnic minorities.

About the so-called EU, I hope that it will be drastically changed while I believe that the UK, or better England with or without Scotland, Ulster, and Wales, is much better (for all parties) if it is part of an English Oceanic Community with the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

Finally, Berlusconi has always been absolved in the numerous trials, while Trump was a damned fool to pay so much money to a porn star.

JE comments:  We've been down this road before, and it might be instructive to frame the question as a hypothetical.  Imagine if Mussolini had joined the Allies from the outset, and Italy occupied by Hitler as a result.  Would Italy's Jewish community have fared better, or worse?  I would imagine the latter.  Look at what happened in Poland.

Eugenio, what can you tell us about sabotage in Italy's war industries?  Is there any extensive research on the subject?

As for Trump, he was "supposed" to be arrested this week, but so far nothing.  It would be ironic (fitting?) if he is finally brought down by a porn star.  Who stands to gain from the circus waiting in the wings?  Trump's Republican rivals.  I imagine DeSantis is quietly cheering on New York DA Alvin Bragg.  High-profile Democrats are probably nervous, because they know what awaits them the next time the Republicans are in power.

Rate this post
Informational value 
Reader Ratings (0)
Informational value0%

Visits: 0


Please login/register to reply or comment: Login/Sign up

  • Italian Deportees and Workers in Nazi Germany (Eugenio Battaglia, Italy 03/28/23 3:57 AM)
    Commenting on my post of 23 March, our esteemed editor asked: "What can you tell us about sabotage in Italy's war industries (during the Civil War)?"

    With the "Carta del Lavoro" in Italy, strikes became forbidden, as the resolution of any labor dispute was assigned to the labor judiciary system.  Then strikes became obsolete under the "Socializzazione" and the entrance of the workers into the executive offices of the enterprises.

    On March 1st, 1944 the Socializzazione, hated by capitalists and communists for its favorable impact on the working conditions of the producers, was not yet in full force. A great strike exploded in Milan, seeking an improvement in wages and food supply because of the deterioration caused by the war.  It was pushed by the communists, even if at the time they were still a small minority.

    The strike from 1 to 8 March spread through the regions of Milan and Turin, involving a total of 208,549 workers with sabotage attacks by the infiltrated communists on the electrical grid and work installations.

    But the strike failed, even if the communist influence increased, with 1200 hoodlum workers deported to German labor camps following the pressure of German Ambassador Rudolph Rahn.  It is said that he wanted the deportation of 70,000 workers, but such a request was flatly refused by Mussolini.

    The emigration and deportation of Italian workers up to 1945 is still an obscure page of history. We can find extremely biased versions, as Nazi Germany in the mainstream opinion can only be an absolute evil.

    Italians from the Middle Ages moved to Germany, but a great emigration for temporary work happened after the accords of 1937 between Italy and the Third Reich. At the time, Germany was probably the country where workers had the best wage treatment with many fringe benefits.  Just remember the beautiful cruise ships for workers which ended so badly in the Baltic Sea in 1945.

    On 25 September 1941, there were 216,834 Italian workers in Germany, in all fields, with contracts lasting six months followed by a vacation in Italy.

    At that time in an apartment just below mine lived a family whose husband was working in Germany.  The wife would brag about how much money he was sending home. He went voluntarily in a "black shirt," but when he returned in order to claim benefits from the new Italy he tried to say that he had been deported.

    Work in Germany, besides the high wages, had other fringe benefits including supplies of Italian food and religious assistance by at least 200 Italian chaplains.  There were also newspapers and radio programs, with the support of Fascist organizations.  Furthermore for any crime or working problems, the workers were under Italian authorities!

    But the workers were not monks.

    Actually, not everything was roses and flowers, as the young German males were at war and many beautiful blonde German girls were left alone.  The Italians tried their best to fill the void, and this fact created some problems with the local public.

    An Italian fellow went around bragging that the Germans were the stupidest of all people, as they were going to war abroad living their women for the foreigners. The fellow was sent back to Italy.

    With the increase in indiscriminate bombings, the number of Italian workers dwindled as they preferred to return to their comparatively safe villages in Italy.

    After the unconditional surrender of 8 September 1943 with the defection of the king and Badoglio to the Victors' Bandwagon, the Italian Army, though still strong with 2 million men, essentially dissolved. Of them 94,000, mostly Camice Nere, immediately joined the Wehrmacht and then the RSI.  Some joined local partisans in the Balkans but were mistreated, and many succeeded in returning home and some became partisans, especially in Piedmont.  About 650,000 of these were taken prisoner and deported to Germany.

    From prisoners of war, they became deported people and employed in work. The RSI tried to improve their conditions and in July 1944 obtained their liberation or better transformation into free civilian workers with the same rights, wages, and food supply as the German civilians. In the new Italy (lay-democratic-antifascist), such great achievements are forgotten or hidden. So, at least 420,000 became free workers, 61,000 joined the Flak antiaircraft batteries, while many others joined the RSI army divisions.  Some 23,000 had joined the SS Waffen Division.  The remaining chose to remain in the old labor camps, perhaps considered safer or for political reasons, such as the case of Giovannino Guareschi , the author of the books/movies Don Camillo e Peppone.

    When I was at sea, I knew a sailor and ex-prisoner, who in July 1944 was lucky to find work on a farm owned by a beautiful blond widow, becoming her "factotum." He tried his best to remain there with her, but the wife in Italy intervened with Italian and foreign authorities, and he had to return to Italy.

    JE comments:  These impromptu wartime Germano-Italian "families" would make a fascinating chapter in the history of private life.  I wonder if the topic has been studied in depth.  Most likely, it is not politically acceptable to represent these unions in anything but the most negative light--economic desperation, sexual exploitation, and the like.

    Please login/register to reply or comment:

Trending Now

All Forums with Published Content (46522 posts)

- Unassigned

Culture & Language

American Indians Art Awards Bestiary of Insults Books Conspiracy Theories Culture Ethics Film Food Futurology Gender Issues Humor Intellectuals Jews Language Literature Media Coverage Movies Music Newspapers Numismatics Philosophy Plagiarism Prisons Racial Issues Sports Tattoos Western Civilization World Communications


Capitalism Economics International Finance World Bank World Economy


Education Hoover Institution Journal Publications Libraries Universities World Bibliography Series


Biographies Conspiracies Crime Decline of West German Holocaust Historical Figures History Holocausts Individuals Japanese Holocaust Leaders Learning Biographies Learning History Russian Holocaust Turkish Holocaust


Afghanistan Africa Albania Algeria Argentina Asia Australia Austria Bangladesh Belgium Belize Bolivia Brazil Canada Central America Chechnya Chile China Colombia Costa Rica Croatia Cuba Cyprus Czech Republic Denmark East Europe East Timor Ecuador Egypt El Salvador England Estonia Ethiopia Europe European Union Finland France French Guiana Germany Greece Guatemala Haiti Hungary Iceland India Indonesia Iran (Persia) Iraq Ireland Israel/Palestine Italy Japan Jordan Kenya Korea Kosovo Kuwait Kyrgyzstan Latin America Liberia Libya Mali Mexico Middle East Mongolia Morocco Namibia Nations Compared Netherlands New Zealand Nicaragua Niger Nigeria North America Norway Pacific Islands Pakistan Palestine Paraguay Peru Philippines Poland Polombia Portugal Romania Saudi Arabia Scandinavia Scotland Serbia Singapore Slovakia South Africa South America Southeast Asia Spain Sudan Sweden Switzerland Syria Thailand The Pacific Tunisia Turkey Turkmenistan UK (United Kingdom) Ukraine USA (America) USSR/Russia Uzbekistan Venezuela Vietnam West Europe Yemen Yugoslavia Zaire


Balkanization Communism Constitutions Democracy Dictators Diplomacy Floism Global Issues Hegemony Homeland Security Human Rights Immigration International Events Law Nationalism NATO Organizations Peace Politics Terrorism United Nations US Elections 2008 US Elections 2012 US Elections 2016 US Elections 2020 Violence War War Crimes Within the US


Christianity Hinduism Islam Judaism Liberation Theology Religion

Science & Technology

Alcohol Anthropology Automotives Biological Weapons Design and Architecture Drugs Energy Environment Internet Landmines Mathematics Medicine Natural Disasters Psychology Recycling Research Science and Humanities Sexuality Space Technology World Wide Web (Internet)


Geography Maps Tourism Transportation


1-TRIBUTES TO PROFESSOR HILTON 2001 Conference on Globalizations Academic WAR Forums Ask WAIS Experts Benefactors Chairman General News Member Information Member Nomination PAIS Research News Ronald Hilton Quotes Seasonal Messages Tributes to Prof. Hilton Varia Various Topics WAIS WAIS 2006 Conference WAIS Board Members WAIS History WAIS Interviews WAIS NEWS waisworld.org launch WAR Forums on Media & Research Who's Who