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PAX, LUX ET VERITAS SINCE 1965
Post Mainstream History, and Soviet Responsibility for World War II
Created by John Eipper on 06/07/21 3:39 AM

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Mainstream History, and Soviet Responsibility for World War II (Eugenio Battaglia, Italy, 06/07/21 3:39 am)

Fantastic, Sean McMeekin has discovered warm water! (This is a common saying in Italian when someone states the obvious.)

Well, as Boris Volodarsky relates (June 6), there was perhaps no "heroes' welcome" for the returning Tuapse seamen in 1955, but such a welcome, in addition to the film version, is reported by the present Russian authorities, who relate also the strong oppressive acts by the Americans.

About being enamored of "mainstream history," please read the account of the meeting between Hitler and Molotov in November 1940, the Soviet support for the putsch in Belgrade on 27 April 1941 and the continuous arrival of Soviet troops on the border. On 1 May 1941 of a total Soviet strength of 170 infantry divisions, 33 and 1/2 cavalry brigades, 46 armored brigades, 118, 20, and 40 (respectively) were on the Western borders.

On 1 September 1939, these numbers had been 44, 20, and 3. Only an innocent arrangement?

The Soviet Embassies, contrary to the initial accords of 1939, started pushing the Communists of the areas occupied by Germany to commit acts of sabotage, while the German settlers in the East were pressured to act as spies for the USSR when returned to Germany.

Stalin was ruthless in creating an empire, but what about other empires? Don't they have something in common, even if the citizens of such new empires will never believe/acknowledge it?

JE comments:  Given Hitler's rantings about Lebensraum in the East, Stalin would have been an idiot not to beef up his borders.  He was cruel, but no fool.  I cannot prove this counterfactual argument, but I'll give it anyway.  If Stalin had not sent so many divisions to the border (which turned out to be largely ineffective anyway), does this mean that Hitler would have canceled Barbarossa?  Eugenio, what say you? 

We're coming up on the 80th anniversary of the German invasion, June 22nd, 1941.


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  • Stalin's Ambitions for European Domination (Eugenio Battaglia, Italy 06/08/21 7:43 AM)
    After Suvorov and others we now also have Sean McMeekin, but I already knew that it was Stalin who wanted to go to war to dominate Europe. This is a view I've held for many years, from reading between the lines and accepting the evidence without cultivating the old bias.

    Do you remember for how long the politically correct version of the massacre of the 22,000 Polish officers continued to blame the Germans in spite of the report from the International Red Cross? Only thanks to the Cold War the truth came out, but now it is in nobody's interest to search for the truth.


    However, when I want to joke, I say that I can understand those Americans who in early 1940 believed that the USSR was ruled by Good Uncle Joe who had a difficult childhood so he never trusted anyone. He finally found one man he trusted, Hitler, but this one was a criminal madman who betrayed poor Uncle Joe.


    Not only that but the criminal madman arrived to accuse, with some annoying Poles, Good Uncle Joe for the massacre of Katyn and many other massacres and of course, Good Uncle Joe was right when he hanged Germans for those crimes.


    Hitler in 1941 was satisfied with what he had achieved. See the offers of peace made by him.


    The many Soviet divisions proved to be ineffective anyway because they were preparing for an offensive and not for a defensive. They were superior in arms and men but were on the move and the German sudden counter-attack overwhelmed the Soviets, who later instead fought well when properly placed in defensive positions before going on the offensive.


    JE comments: The #1 WWII counterfactual (among dozens or hundreds) is what if Hitler had not broken his non-aggression pact with the Soviets. Another year or so of Britain going it alone may indeed have resulted in a negotiated peace.


    But the above scenario could never have happened. Hitler was almost as obsessed with the Bolshevik "problem" as he was with the Jewish one.  More precisely, he saw them as one and the same (problem).  And another condition would have to have been met:  no Pearl Harbor.


    Here's a non-hypothetical question: How far can one condemn Stalin's ambitions without sounding apologetic towards Hitler, or worse, exposing oneself to accusations of revisionism? I am of the "pox on both your houses" school, looking no further than what those two neighborhood bullies did to Poland in 1939.

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    • Britain Was NEVER Alone in WWII (Eugenio Battaglia, Italy 06/09/21 4:11 AM)
      Please stop with the silly tale of Britain going it alone in WWII.

      Britain could count on the armies of New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, India, Canada, Greece, volunteers from France Libre, plus the Serbian Chetniks, later betrayed in favor of Tito's criminal Communists, Polish aviators, etc.


      Add to this a bunch of soldiers from the other colonies, including some French.  Just give a look at a globe of 1941 and you will see that the red of the British Empire is the dominant color. As just one example, in 1945 the Indian Army in Britain's service had 2.5 million personnel.


      What is wrong with "revisionism"? History is continuous revisionism. Otherwise, it is only what the victors had propagated with their Psychological Warfare Departments, and if enforced by law it is really a religion defended by a new inquisition.


      Another topic: Today the Italian Army has withdrawn from Afghanistan after 20 years of useless war and 52 deaths for nothing. The Italian republic--lay democratic and antifascist, born from the resistance, formed by the constitution derived from an imposed Peace Treaty--has participated in too many useless and/or self-defeating wars starting with Congo 1961 (Kindu), Lebanon, Somalia, Serbia, Iraq (twice) Egypt, Sudan, Libya, etc. Presently, Italian troops are in the above places and in many others, plus the Italian Navy is patrolling east and west of Africa against terrorists and pirates (the involvement of said ships is however correct).


      The Empire has required Italian troops on the Russian borders (sic) and Navy ships in the Indo-Pacific areas, but so far the ships have not yet moved.


      Article 11 of the Italian constitution, said to be the most wonderful in the world, states: "Italy repudiates war as an instrument of offense to the liberty of other peoples and as a means to solve international controversies."


      JE comments:  Point well taken:  it's a dramatic narrative, but the perception of a scrappy little island single-handedly facing down the Nazi juggernaut prior to June 1941 is quite an overstatement.  We also need to take into account the massive material support from the US after March of that year.


      It's been a very long time since WAIS focused on Afghanistan--the longest war in history for the US and its allies.  The bill has been around $1 trillion.  Now that US involvement is winding down, what were the achievements, if any?  Lessons learned... if any?


      Two eternal truisms of military history:  don't invade Russia, and stay the heck out of Afghanistan.


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