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Post Were the Germans "Invaders" in Italy?
Created by John Eipper on 11/19/15 1:43 PM

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Were the Germans "Invaders" in Italy? (Randy Black, USA, 11/19/15 1:43 pm)

In his response to my counter to Eugenio Battaglia's claim regarding an Italian partisan bombing of a theater in 1944, an attack that killed five Nazis, Eugenio claimed that the invaders were not the Germans but instead was the Americans and the Allies and therefore, the Allies acted illegally.

Eugenio wrote: "The German Army was never an invader of Italy. It was an ally first of the Kingdom of Italy and then of the Repubblica Sociale Italiana (maybe a difficult alliance, but always an alliance). The invaders were the Allies."

Eugenio's comment is interesting, considering that history demonstrates that he could be mistaken.

According to The History Channel, On October 13, 1943, the government of Italy declared war on its former Axis partner Germany and joined the battle on the side of the Allies. With the collapse of the fascist government in July, Gen. Pietro Badoglio, Mussolini's former chief of staff and the man who had assumed power in the Duce's stead by request of King Victor Emanuel, began negotiating with Gen. Eisenhower regarding conditional surrender of Italy to the Allies. It became fact on September 8, 1943. RB: The new Italian government allowed the Allies to land in Salarno, per the same source. http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/italy-declares-war-on-germany

Not to be ignored, on the day of Italy's surrender, Hitler launched Operation Axis, the occupation (read: invasion) of Italy. As German troops entered Rome, General Badoglio and the royal family fled to Brindisi, in southeastern Italy, to set up a new antifascist government.

RB: Thus by May 14, 1944, Germany was indeed an invader of Italy and the killing of German officers in a theater was clearly a legal act or war. I trust that Eugenio will set me straight, perhaps playing the "Hungary Card," that false claim that the USSR never invaded Hungary, but instead was "invited" by the leaders who feared the loss of their jobs and heads and thus "invited" the Soviets in willingly. By the way, Russians continue to play that card. See: Ukraine 2014, and Czechoslovakia 1968, etc.

JE comments:  Randy Black's version aligns with "official" history.  Eugenio Battaglia has claimed that the Badoglio government was never a legal one, and therefore had no right to declare war against its former ally.

Badoglio and Pétain led parallel lives.  Both were heroes of the First World War, who sold out to their respective nation's enemies in the Second.  Badoglio got to spend his final years in comfortable retirement, because he picked the winning side.  Perhaps Eugenio could comment on my analogy?

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  • Badoglio and Petain (Eugenio Battaglia, Italy 11/21/15 5:25 AM)
    John E (see Randy Black, 19 November) was right about Badoglio picking the winning side and living well in retirement. (However, he was rather despised.)

    The discussion with Randy Black is a clear example of the difference between how history is related by the winners and the losers.

    I believe, in the case of Germany in Italy, that I have stated the truth.

    The Germans were in Italy well before Italy's unconditional surrender; more arrived later, of course.

    Italy was a co-belligerent after 13 October 1943, but officially continued to be a defeated enemy under occupation. Frankly it was an extremely humiliating situation.

    I never stated that the Allies acted illegally. They were carrying out their war. What a fantastic joke when Randy wrote: "the new government allowed the Allies to land in Salerno."

    I never knew that the Allies needed permission!

    At this point, I think it is better to stop the debate and present it as a classic example of how history is presented according to (arrogant) Victors and (proud) Losers.

    JE comments:  I want to thank Eugenio Battaglia for sending me a copy of Renzo de Felice's massive Mussolini e il fascismo, which arrived at WAIS HQ this week.  I now have a 760-page reading assignment--in Italian!  But fear not:  this is just one volume of De Felice's 6000-page work on Il Duce.  

    How could you write 6000 pages on anything?

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