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Post Christ's DNA; from Ric Mauricio
Created by John Eipper on 07/10/18 6:05 AM

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Christ's DNA; from Ric Mauricio (John Eipper, USA, 07/10/18 6:05 am)

Ric Mauricio responds to Istvan Simon (July 3rd):

These genealogy numbers are mind-boggling. But this is what happens when you take numbers and extrapolate them out. The stock market index would 1 billion or so if you extrapolated out from 1928, 1972, 1987, or 2006 in a straight line. Of course, there are corrections, adjustments, and crashes along the way, just like wars, diseases, and natural disasters make their adjustments to the world population.

But this thread got me thinking. Since Jesus of Nazareth was one of an estimated 281 to 300 million people who populated the earth at that time, would it be more likely that the odds of us being his descendant is 1 in 300 million?  If one believes in the stories in Genesis, would it be that we have a 1 in 3 chance of being a descendant of one of Noah's sons? In fact, that would mean, we are all descendants of Noah, since supposedly, he was the last man on earth.

I need to ask, amongst WAISers, are there any scientists who specialize in forensic sciences? Because now my mind has gone amuck with all sorts of thoughts. Should we not be able to take the DNA from the Mary, mother of Jesus (she being buried in either Ephesus or Gethsemane) and James, brother of Jesus, and compare it to DNA from the Shroud of Turin? Should we not be able to take the DNA from Joseph, Jesus's stepfather, and prove once and for all, that he was not the father of Jesus? You would probably find his DNA in James. If you found his DNA in Jesus, oh boy, would that blow the story of the Virgin birth out of the water.

OK, now I will get myself into trouble. I asked my Christian friends that if I came to them and told them I heard the actual physical voice of God speaking to me what they would think. Would they urge me to seek mental health assistance? Of course they would. So then, why would you believe that people in the past would be any different? And why would you then follow the teachings of those people?

JE comments: You're the numbers guy, Ric, but wouldn't the 300 million-to-one calculus work only if you have but one ancestor?

Ric Mauricio in his final paragraph asks why speaking with God was divine in the old days, but only delusional in the present.  Let's call it the Prophet's Paradox.  Didn't Dostoevsky in the Brothers Karamazov say that if Christ were to reappear today, we would crucify Him all over again?

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  • Jesus, Duterte, and the "Dear John" Letter (from Ric Mauricio) (John Eipper, USA 07/11/18 4:48 AM)

    Ric Mauricio follows up on his post of July 10th:

    Oh, yes, I forgot that it takes two to tango, so when determining an ancestor we should at least cut the odds in half. Of course, unlike the lottery, it is nearly impossible to calculate the odds, considering you can have multiple siblings or inbreeding, etc.

    Regarding Istvan Simon's posting on dictators, don't forget Duterte of the Philippines. Haven't heard from some of our Filipino WAISers as of late. Enlightened dictators? Is that an oxymoron?

    And yes, Jesus of Nazareth would definitely be crucified if he came today. However, depending on where he comes back, the punishment would be different. Perhaps, in Japan, he would be hanged, or in the Muslim nations, beheaded, or in Europe or the US, committed to an institution. Oh, and the perpetrators of his being put away would be the religious powers, similar to the Pharisees in Judea.

    Funny that Noah Rich would begin his posting with "Dear John." The first thought that entered my mind was that he was writing a "Dear John" letter and resigning from WAIS. Thank goodness that was not the case.

    JE comments:  There's a bit of everything in this post from Ric Mauricio.  I'll limit myself to a meek protest against Johnophobia.  Why are we associated with water closets, prostitutes' clients, and getting dumped by significant others?  Only the Dicks among us are similarly maligned, and they have the option of redefining themselves as Riches, Ricks, or staying put as Richards.

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  • Mathematics of Genealogy (Istvan Simon, USA 07/16/18 7:18 AM)
    Ric Mauricio (10 July) wrote a number of interesting thoughts in response to my post of July 3. I would like however to correct one of his paragraphs.

    Ric said:

    "These genealogy numbers are mind-boggling. But this is what happens when you take numbers and extrapolate them out. The stock market index would 1 billion or so if you extrapolated out from 1928, 1972, 1987, or 2006 in a straight line. Of course, there are corrections, adjustments, and crashes along the way, just like wars, diseases, and natural disasters make their adjustments to the world population."

    This paragraph is not quite correct regarding the world population, and it is also not correct when it says that the mind-boggling numbers that I spoke about is an "extrapolation." They are not. The numbers I wrote about are actual numbers that follow from biology and logic. Each of us has two parents and therefore 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents and so on. This is not an extrapolation; it is logic. However the n = 2 to the power m ancestors that result from this calculation after m generations are not necessarily all distinct individuals. Overlap may happen and after a certain number of generations such overlap is likely to occur. 

    To understand this let me give a simple extreme example: Suppose that C is the son of father B and mother M. But let's assume an extreme case of incest, so that B is actually M's son with A. That is C's grandfather A sired his father B with M. Thus M is both C's mother and grandmother. Thus my example shows that C has 4 grandparents, A, M, and M's father F, and M's mother N. But the grandparents plus the parents are only 5 people rather than 6, because his mother and grandmother are the same person.

    JE comments:  Incest is the ultimate taboo, but not with every society.  Egypt, Peru, and Hawaii practiced sibling incest in their royal families.  And closer to home, see below.  How many knew that Evolution's founding father himself, Charles Darwin, was married to his first cousin--with ten children to boot?


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